{UAH} I STILL THINK BUKENYA IS NOT SERIOUS?

'Our country is deteriorating badly'

Former vice president Gilbert Bukenya. PHOTO BY FAISWAL KASIRYE 

In Summary

Eyeing presidency. In April, former vice president Gilbert Bukenya announced that he would take on President Museveni in the next election. With Museveni touring the country in what looks like early preparation for 2016 elections, Sunday Monitor's Richard Wananbwa sounded Prof Bukenya out on whether he still has his eyes on the ball. Below are excerpts:

Are you steadfast in your decision to contest against your former boss?
I made the decision after a very long thought. The main reason I made that decision is because our country is deteriorating very badly and the rule of law is now no longer visible. The constant torture of people by the police and other organs is not acceptable in the 21th century; use of live bullets against civilians, causing deaths is not acceptable. When these people came from the bush, they were fighting to eliminate extra-judicial killings and I supported President Museveni for that. Now extra judicial killing is a common thing, they are not bothered.

Two, the democratic process has been fractured and some of the laws we are passing now are laws against democracy. For example this most recent draconian law (Public Order Management Bill) and the way it was passed. That law is putting a rope in the neck of democracy and this is not acceptable.

Where does this leave the country?
Time will come and the law will not stay. Democracy must be maintained and decisions of government must be collectively discussed but if one man's wish is this and then the whole party just gangs up in support of that wish that is a very dangerous situation. It is a situation which will crop into dictatorship because once you begin allowing only one individual to say let it be this, and then you are going into dictatorship.

So it is politics that you are not happy with?
Not just politics. You know, we have taken many decisions in the past but they have not been questioned; the demise of Uganda Airlines and now I hear that the government is thinking of returning it! Why was it abolished? Why did we leave the railway to be completed destroyed and then now you want tax payers money to build a completely new one.
Now we are doing the so-called SACCOs for purposes of politics. Why did we kill the co-operatives and their co-operative bank? The most painful bit for me is the neglect for the poor.

What do you mean?
You see, poor people are talked about by our politicians and then they acquire money for the poor people but that money never reaches the poor people. And using money to hoodwink people to support you is very dangerous and that is why in Buganda there is agitation to say whether you give us money or you don't, we are going to make a decision against you.
And let me tell you since I made this announcement, I have got tremendous support and you can't believe it.

Maybe people are just exciting you
You know I have been in politics so I know someone who is trying to excite you and someone who is serious. I have over 20,000 volunteers walking everywhere and although, you people associate me with Buganda, this is not true, my strength is in northern Uganda. Northern Uganda supports me more than Buganda.

Do you think you can beat President Museveni given the structures on ground that will work for him?
Those structures being put are temporary and although he puts them, Ugandans have begun to understand; they are keeping a close eye and we are going to demand for a complete change of this so-called Electoral Commission.

The State machinery usually sides with Museveni during elections, how will you beat that?
We are prepared for it; we may even become an Egypt because State machinery has their families and the families live in Uganda and if you continuously torture people and push them against the wall, things can change and this time there is no turning back, this time is only to go forward. And if there is intimidation within the population, no we are not going to accept it.

How are you going to refuse it?
There are many ways and one is we can cause a people's power. Museveni went to the bush with only 27 guns but what happened? Because people then were fed up with an undemocratic process and torture, that's how Museveni got all this support.

You are taking on Museveni in NRM primaries and when he "rigs" you out, you turn to other options. Won't people say you are disgruntled?
Politics is not a straight line and never undress yourself fully because it makes it easier for your opponents to target you. All these are our gimmicks of survival and you will see the developments, I am going to stand in primaries but I see what is going on, I see what is being mobilised and I also mobilise differently. Museveni started as a DP member then he left and went to UPC, he then went to UPM and then left to go to the bush and said no parties. That is a very important learning lesson.
Now as I see the population moving, I could turn into a bigger thing! I am talking to the opposition groups and I am talking to NRM people. Eventually in 2014, you are going to see the real Bukenya politically. But right now, I am moving through NRM primaries and so on and I know the reason why.

You say you have been talking to the opposition, which opposition leaders have you interfaced with?
I don't want to say their names because it could distort things but we are talking and certainly, let me tell you, I have talked to the DP, I have talked to FDC, to a certain limit, I have talked to UPC and I have talked to the Conservative Party and I am talking also with NRM. Because what we need tomorrow is to build a united front.

The military has been a key in Museveni's politics and now power is shifting away from the historicals to the young people led by his son. Don't you thinking the military will continue to be a master card?
I must say it is very dangerous for any leader to count his cards basing on the military because that can divide the military. And you know the military are also people with families as well. The families can no longer afford two meals a day; they can no longer buy sugar. I don't think soldiers will just remain dormant in their brain and they don't see the problems we are in.

But the people calling shots in the military maybe close to the First Son and half of the army is under his command. How will you handle this?
You are pushing me to tell you more things that I am not ready to tell you now. Let me assure you, the thing we are doing is not a small thing and the thing we are doing does not exclude the army because the army is part of Uganda. I don't want to tribalise this but you see the army is made of people from different tribes and when they go back they see how their people live. Those whom you are talking about come from one area and everybody has seen it and we must be prepared for it. The good example is Museveni, how did he crack the [Obote] army here? It was a big army.

There are arguments that Museveni is propelling his son for leadership after him, do you think it has some merit in it?
Well, there is suspicion about it but I think it is a very wrong move and it may even damage the political ambitions of his son. If he wants his son to be a leader, he must let him move through the hierarchy of leadership but imposing his son in a democratic process where we are going to look for one man one vote, he will never win. Well he can appoint him vice president, I have no problem and that is his mandate but the most important thing is for his son to come here at Katomi and campaign to be given the votes.
If you impose your son; you will be knocked down very quickly by the voting and whether he rigs the vote or not, he will be knocked down. Because you see you can't rig without some support. There are areas where Museveni got one vote and now those areas where he got one vote have expanded.

He has returned Buganda's properties so they [Baganda] will go back and vote him?
If Buganda had accepted that goodwill of returning the properties, I don't think they should have treated the President after the announcement that way [at Kabaka's 20th anniversary].
And the Kabaka did you listen to his speech? There was no single acknowledgement in his speech and you remember he kept on saying that we should not be bulldozed if we want to discuss, we should discuss as equals in the presence of the President seated next to him. Let me tell you things have changed in Uganda.

--
Rehema
Patriot in Kampala,East Africa:UMBS is a registered organization devoted to matters of interest to Muslims in Uganda.Muslims from other countries are welcome to join us too. Follow us on Twitter at: http://twitter.com/#!/UMBSFORUM. To donate to UMBS activities, click on: http://um-bs.com/donate/ or just deposit money on UMBS Bank A/C at Bank of Africa:07074320002 .