{UAH} M7 has got Gen.Tumwine by the balls.Somebody forwarded his 'corruption' file to the president and this is the time to use it!
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I wish I could talk to Sejusa, Tumwine says
Gen Elly Tumwine. photo by Faiswal Kasirye.
In Summary
War on graft. Gen Elly Tumwine was the first army commander of the NRA and has sat in Parliament since 1986. Previously rather reticent, the general has recently come out to speak strongly against corruption that has consumed many of his Bush War comrades and the country. Sunday Monitor's Richard Wanambwa interviewed him on this, and other issues like the fate of his colleague Gen David Sejusa, who recently fell out with the regime. Excerpts:
Q. You have been actively campaigning against corruption lately, what drives you when majority of your colleagues have instead indulged in the practice?
A. Well, first of all, corruption has been there all the time, it is a universal human weakness that is manifested as grand corruption at higher levels and pity corruption at lower levels of any society.
So every religion, every culture, every society has ways and means of standing up against corruption within its own society.
What prompted me to start Volunteers Anti-Corruption Campaign Africa (Vacoca) was when the President in his State-of-The-Nation Address in 2009, said: "We have fought all the other wars and we have won except one, the fight against corruption" and he said: "I am inviting all citizens like we fought against HIV/Aids to join this war and fight against corruption". I was seated in Parliament and I said there is another war there for us to fight. But even before that I was not only watching, I was not only sad and disappointed and I was not only annoyed at the level of corruption that was going in different institutions and bodies both in government and private sector and so here he came up with a concept that we needed to handle it as a war and mobilise the people to fight it.
So what do you want people to do to end corruption?
If we can mobilise the African people on a voluntary basis, then we will be far because voluntarism is the only way you can include every person, it has an aspect of free inclusion that whoever is annoyed, whoever is not happy like we say in Pan Africanism that whoever is annoyed or not happy should not agonise but organise. We have so many Ugandans and Africans who are every day angry but are lamenting, commenting, singing and talking about corruption but are not organised to resist and so I thought the best method is guiding the people on the correct strategy.
Just how bad in your view is corruption in Uganda?
Corruption is more serious than HIV/Aids in my opinion because Aids catches those who look for it or accidently but for corruption, no one can avoid it because even if you are not corrupt yourself, your property, resources are being swindled by those who are corrupt. You will miss a road, a hospital or a building when it collapses and miss drugs when they are stolen and so it affects every person. It is like diseases like flue; it catches you even when you have not looked for it but there are those which you can avoid. You cannot avoid corruption except by organising against it to create prevention and action when somebody commits the act or crime.
What is your view about the Executive's stand on corruption?
You know there is one stand when the President speaks in his State-of -the-Nation addresses and says the policy of government is zero-tolerance to corruption, he is declaring the position of the executive. However, it does not mean there are no corrupt executives and that could be taken at individual basis and we look at every individual who is corrupt and we expose him or her. So the official position of the government is zero-tolerance to corruption but now we challenge every member of the Executive; let every minister, let every permanent secretary, let everybody who works in the Executive stand up and say I am not corrupt.
Recently, you came out strongly to oppose the inclusion of Mr Pius Bigirimana on the list of accounting officers at Parliament due to the OPM saga. However, your Commander-in-Chief and also President, has strongly defended him, saying he was a whistle-blower in the saga. So what makes you defer from the Commander-in-Chief?
Yes, I strongly came out against him in principle. I used the example of sickness and I said that somebody might be there shivering with high temperature, you may even not know that it is malaria or anything...but when someone is there shivering, sweating, has a high temperature and is weak, what do you do? Do you keep him in his home because he has not taken himself to hospital? Or everybody gets concerned and says this man seems to be shivering and take him to the hospital where he is tested, analysed and if there is no malaria, it might be stress and then he comes back and works but people to be looking unwell and sick to the public and they are not taken where they are supposed to be taken for analysis and treatment; I think it is taking it lightly.
Where somebody in his or her ministry loses billions and billions – and forget about these little monies because even that little money when you lose it you must be answerable, somebody should be feeling ashamed! We say shame is a revolutionary sentiment but to see that those are the ones arrogant and talking above everybody and when the police calls them they say 'I will not go there' is a sign of arrogance and impunity.
But the arrogant and corrupt are part of you who went to the bush in Luweero?
We did not go to bush to come and loot; we went to the bush to establish an order and which has been established for citizens to enjoy; for people to do what they feel is right for themselves as long as it doesn't break the law. I can proudly say we have achieved that.
However, that does not stop individuals in their individual capacity; sinners as we all are and you know what the Bible says, "And we pray that we have all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God".
God is very good and forgiving, but sin should not go unpunished and so I want to say that when we went to the bush there was no question and we were even aware that corruption is there so in the 10-Point Programme, it was number seven; fighting against corruption. Even when we were in the bush, we had some individual cases and of course we didn't have a lot to steal but even if you stole cassava or whatever little we would deal with you. So the fight against corruption has actually been on.
As far as 1986-1988, the President said it was a cancer when he addressed an NRA meeting in Jinja and said: "I am warning you NRA/M people, I have heard that people are being attracted into corrupt acts, be careful, corruption is a cancer" and those who didn't listen took it lightly and many have fallen victims. So going to the bush did not treat us of all the diseases, it treated us of one major issue of being patriotic, fighting for your country and of sacrificing.
Now then came the temptation of the plenty because like I said earlier, there is "grand" and "pity" corruption. Grand comes with office you are holding. If you hold a big office, then the temptation is high for you to be corrupt and if you are a policeman on the road, we call that "pity" corruption because you collect one thousand, two thousand or three thousand shillings but off course when you combine those, it equals grand corruption.
What is your view on the political transition of power from President Museveni to another leader?
It is a constitutional matter, so I have nothing to say on that one. What the people choose is what I go with. All leaders are chosen by the people, it is the duty of the people to decide who to lead them. And so I cannot really start commenting on the transition and the constitution by the way provides for it.
But there are people who say that without the input of the army it is not possible, especially you the Bush War generals?
Those are speculating. The army has no big role to play except to provide security for everyone to vote whomever he/she wants. So really, I cannot comment on the speculations of some people but history has proven that our role is for Uganda and the peace, comfort and confidence of every citizen to live freely and do what he/she wants according to the law.
Should the ruling party consider having another candidate for 2016 or retain Gen Museveni?
I have nothing to do with parties and what parties decide is their mandate, it is their right and I shouldn't even comment on that one because I am non-partisan and I am still a serving UPDF general. The parties do what they do and whoever wins we salute.
Do you think Gen David Sejusa was handled well despite what he did in line of his duty?
Who handled him? Where is he? (prolonged laughter) I don't see how he has been handled because as I have been saying previously, there hasn't been a chance even to handle him because he said what he said when he was already out. What has been there is what has been in the press and so I don't think there has been any handling of any sort. There have been reactions and speculation and I am looking forward to getting the real truth, what was the real truth and so we need to look for that.
Have you talked to him since then?
Not yet and I even don't have his number and actually I wish I could because I don't mind and you know there should be freedom to talk to anybody who has a point to say or whether you have a point to tell him. I have something I would like to tell him and I think if I got a chance, it would help to tell him what is on my mind.
What would you advise Sejusa and what would you advise the President on issues Sejusa raised?
Like I have said, those are issues that have not been handled which have not been analysed and which are still a subject for consideration and so how do you give advice before you have full correct information. You need to first have all information and then sieve it and then balance it and see what is good for Uganda.
You went to the bush to fight militarism and gun rule. Today we see militarism on the streets, especially against Opposition. Have you moved any step forward?
Not only one step, there are so many steps forward. Do you know how you walk? Do you walk with both legs at the same time? One leg at the time forward and you leave one behind and again you leave one forward. I think whatever is happening is not unique in Uganda; it is how the Opposition works with the government in power.
But don't you think the police also overstep their mandate?
That is a matter of tactics which depend on those who are operating at a given time and you can see it at individual level; how an individual like [Sam] Omala may handle it is different from how [Felix] Kaweesi handles it.
Your views on Dr Kizza Besigye's contribution to the Bush War since some of your colleagues say his input was minimal?
They are recorded, he was a doctor for the bush and he contributed much as he could. Views held by somebody now should have nothing to do with his past and he should be judged at every stage for what they do. And you know sometimes we give medals but when someone abuses it, it can be removed, we give promotions and if you misbehave it can be removed and so really it depends on what you are interested in.
The row over Nommo Gallery, which pits ministry of Gender Permanent Secretary Pius Bigirimana against Gen Elly Tumwine, is escalating by the day.Title fight: Pius Bigirimana (L) and Gen Elly Tumwine
New information from the Uganda National Cultural Centre (UNCC), the government agency that runs the National Theatre and Nommo Gallery, contradicts earlier statements by Tumwine, that he had a binding arrangement with the centre to build, operate and transfer (BOT).
"No tenancy agreement has ever been signed between UNCC and Creations Ltd," a UNCC board member who preferred anonymity told The Observer.Creations Ltd is Tumwine's company that runs Nommo Gallery. The row stems from Bigirimana's desire to evict Tumwine from the Nommo Gallery, a government property located in upscale Nakasero, which the general has occupied for at least two decades, allegedly without paying rent. Tumwine claims the B.O.T arrangement exempts him from paying rent.
A source familiar with the row says some members of the board have now appealed to President Museveni to rein in his general. The Observer has learnt that UNCC has summoned Tumwine many times in meetings meant largely to resolve the standoff but nothing has come of the meetings.
According to the board member, Tumwine took over Nommo Gallery in 1990s when he was the board chairman of UNCC. He is reported to have argued that Nommo Gallery belonged to visual artists. As a visual artist himself, he pledged to reorganise the gallery into a vibrant national collection of art. He also promised to tarmac the compound and fence off the area.
The Observer this week reported that in his first month at the Gender, Labour and Social Development ministry, Bigirimana took the bold step of asking Tumwine, a senior NRA historical turned anti-corruption crusader, to move out of Nommo Gallery (see, Bigirimana blows whistle on Gen Elly Tumwine, The Observer, July 24-25, 2013).
The Gender ministry is demanding millions in rent. The battle, sources say, stretches to a wider fight between Tumwine and Bigirimana more so over the Shs 50bn scandal in the Office of the Prime Minister (OPM).
As an army MP, Tumwine enthusiastically pushed for Bigirimana to account for the money or face jail like his former Principal Accountant Godfrey Kazinda. But Bigirimana argues that he blew the whistle on the OPM scam, an excuse that even Museveni agrees with. Tumwine this week told The Observer that he had a "Build, Operate and Transfer" arrangement with the ministry, meaning he would not pay rent until the property has been transferred to the government.
In an interview today referred to claims of him defaulting as "absolute rubbish."
"If Birigimana put a shilling on any of the property, then he should demand for it. But if some people are guilty and looking for escape routes, we will find out," he said.
"Does Birigimana know the idea behind the Nommo Gallery? It is not for collecting money but promoting art which I have done. I found the Nommo Gallery in a very sore state. It was an abandoned place covered in the bush. They [UNCC] couldn't find money to slash it. I used my own money to clear the anti hills and opened up the restaurant to attract the people to the area."
"Whoever is at the Nommo Gallery and National Theatre is benefitting from my initiatives to generate money, otherwise they would have close. I created the crafts village, which was previously a bushy place. I started the parking lot, which had been stolen by some unscrupulous people in KCC."
Disowned
But members of the board who spoke to The Observer roundly dispute Tumwine's claim. The board members argue that what Tumwine did was to fully establish his hegemony at Nommo Gallery by putting up a three roomed structure measuring 6X20 meters in 1997. In the same year, he also entered into a private deal that saw part of the Nommo Gallery given away to a business person to put up Pearl restaurant.
Apparently, there were efforts by UNCC to originate a tenancy agreement with Creations Ltd, but the efforts were hampered by the alleged lack of clarity over the ownership of the gallery. So, the board at the time preferred to shelve the matter until the land title was found.
The land title for the Nommo Gallery which neighbours State Lodge was under contention –with National Housing and Construction Company claiming ownership.
Gen secure title
But Tumwine, a highly connected soldier, is said to have played a great role in securing the land title back into the names of UNCC. This gave him a lee way to use the property without anyone touching him. The Pearl restaurant, for example, just started in 2007 to remit dues to UNCC of Shs2.2m per month –meaning that for 10 years since 1997 when the restaurant was established, it did not remit Shs264m to UNCC.
For Tumwine's structures in which he runs personal businesses like visual art exhibitions, he has never paid a single penny to UNCC. In May this year, he was summoned by the current board headed by Dr Mercy Mirembe Ntagaare over the same tenancy issue, and Tumwine is reported to have told the board that 'he was a tenant whose status should be legalised.'
He said his stay carried the same arrangement as that of Pearl restaurant, of building, operating and transferring the structures to UNCC. But the board insists that Tumwine should be paying fees to UNCC just like Pearl restaurant is doing, which means that for the last 16 years, Tumwine should have paid Shs422.4m to UNCC –if we are to go by the rate charged for Pearl restaurant. In total, Tumwine's stay at Nommo Gallery has cost UNCC about 686.4m.
Tumwine also owns two kiosks at the crafts village at the National Theatre. But since 2001 when he opened these kiosks, he has not paid tenancy fees. He only started paying in April. A kiosk at the crafts village pays Shs750,000 per a quarter (three months). This means that for the last 12 years, Tumwine did not pay Shs 72m to UNCC for the two shops.
This revenue would have gone a long way in lessening the financial burden of UNCC, whose facilities are in appalling state.
dtlumu@observer.ug
smusasizi@observer.ug
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"War is nothing but a continuation of political intercourse, with a mixture of other means. Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest."
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H.OGWAPITI
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"To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."
---Theodore Roosevelt
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