{UAH} Pojim/WBK: Mbabazi is smart, but I am smarter – Kasirye Ggwanga
|
9:59 AM |
No comments |
Mbabazi is smart, but I am smarter – Kasirye Ggwanga
On June 26, BRIG KASIRYE GGWANGA, an outspoken and hugely controversial army brigadier general, discussed the 2016 candidacy of former Prime Minister Amama Mbabazi in an interview with Deo Walusimbi.
Ggwanga, a presidential advisor on security in the central region, described Mbabazi as a smart man in everything who comes up short on presidential credentials.
Below are excerpts.
What do you make of this hullaballoo over Mbabazi's presidential challenge against Museveni?
We came in here in 1986. Okay, you can talk about the [NRM] 10-point programme, but I never participated in its creation. But what I knew when I was fighting in the bush was to come back and create a situation...
But today, I have found myself with a group of people who are just obsessed with riches and high life. So, when you talk about this hullaballoo about Amama Mbabazi, I have known Mbabazi since he joined us when we captured this country, which was in 1986.I never saw him [Mbabazi] in the bush.
Are you saying that Mbabazi joined you after you captured power?
Yeah, that is when I saw him and a lot of civilians came in when we captured Kampala. So we were seeing a lot of strange faces and one of them was Amama Mbabazi. So, I don't know much about his NRA background, but I understand he was a financial officer and all that kind of crap...
But as a military officer you have worked with Mbabazi.
No.
He was in the External Security Organisation, ESO, and then he was security and defence minister…
Yeah, President Museveni gave me an office and he [Mbabazi] denied me that office. So, I just looked at him and said okay. By then he was the security [minister] and I was supposed to coordinate between the ministry of defense and ministry of security. So when he didn't give me working premises, I just left.
Why did he deny you that office?
I don't know, you can ask him because I had nothing to do with that guy. But what I thought, by then, he was trying to do these funny things he is involved in now and he knew I was a very nosy guy. He knew I was going to find out really very fast, he never wanted me near him.
But how would you generally describe Mbabazi?
He is a smart guy.
In terms of?
In everything, Mbabazi is very smart. But I am smarter than him; you ask him about Kasirye Ggwanga, he will tell you I am very smart. He is a civilian, the way he plays his cards; I don't know if he plays chess, I would like to play a game with him.
Mbabazi claims we are in a tired system and he wants to usher in some freshness.
Which system? The excuse he gave us when we went to him with General Aronda Nyakairima, and General Katumba Wamala to ask him why he wasn't giving us our office [the one he denied me] he told us that we never planned for it during the security planning and all that.
But why was that office a do-or-die matter?
We wanted to find out what exactly the DISOs, GISOs, and others were doing with government funds and what we were getting out of them, but then he knew that he was playing with those DISOs, GISOs and others.
Mbabazi plans to steer the transition from your old generation to the next generation…
Mbabazi is older than me by about four years; you are saying my generation. He is steering his generation. I don't want to argue about my age, but I was born in 1952. I came to know Mbabazi when we captured Kampala. So, when he talks about steering us, to where?
I don't want this crap of Mbabazi steering us to a new generation. In fact, he is just going to take us back because he is been in government, he is been a prime minister.
Would Mbabazi make a good leader in your view?
No.
Why?
I told you no.
A no can't stand without being qualified, Brigadier.
But I told you I have been with that man [Mbabazi] for the last 30 years. Why did he deny me an office to work with him?
You seem to have a personal vendetta against Mbabazi.
I don't have any personal vendetta against anybody in this country.
How would you advise Mbabazi regarding his presidential ambitions?
I have got no words for Mbabazi. He has chosen to go down that road; that is his business.
What did you read out of President Museveni's reaction to Mbabazi's declaration?
He got annoyed [because] he never expected something like that from Mbabazi.
So, he panicked?
That man [Museveni] never panics, I never saw Mbabazi in combat, I have seen Museveni in combat, under fire and that is when you judge a person, but he got annoyed because Mbabazi was trying to stir up something worldwide. That is why he went onto the social media stuff.
Do you feel Mbabazi betrayed Museveni and the system?
He [Mbabazi] can betray nobody unless he betrays himself. Police seems to be taking part in this whole affair.
This [Fred] Enanga [police spokesperson] is coming up with wild statements. I don't know why they are getting so much involved in the Mbabazi stuff. These are policemen, they are supposed to work for the country, not to get involved in politics, and I don't want security people getting intimate with the NRM system.
Would you say that IGP Kale Kayihura is acting overzealously in writing to Mbabazi over his consultative meetings?
I really know nothing about politics. If Kayihura wants to get involved in this saga, I wish him well.
What do you make of police's arrest of General David Sejusa recently?
It was a blunder, but they rectified it so fast. But it really annoyed us because there is no way a captain can arrest a general. It was like going in a beehive, let them not mess with army men we have got colours. When they [police] were arresting General Sejusa, they were tinkering with a lot of us. What would have happened if General Sejusa resisted?
Are you threatening them, does General Sejusa still have the clout to cause havoc?
Yeah, he has got more clout than you think.
Of the two, Mbabazi and Sejusa, who has more clout?
Mbabazi is nothing compared to Gen Sejusa; how many people like us in uniform care about Mbabazi? Maybe these DISOs and GISOs, but not us in uniform.
Where do you see Uganda after the 2016 elections?
Uganda should worry about food, degradation of land and the water system …and I would like the manifesto to be anchored on mechanization of agriculture because it can make us richer than politics.
Now look at DP, UPC, FDC and the opposition at large. They made an alliance two weeks ago. I understand they were attacking each other. You find these drama [actor] guys like Kato Lubwama also involved in a saga of coming into a system of ruling Kasirye Ggwanga. You leave [Museveni] alone. At least I am still comfortable with him.
Still comfortable with Museveni who Mbabazi says is superintending a tired system?
What is tired? It's you who are tired because you can't come up with good developmental ideas.
Looking at this Museveni-Mbabazi rift, many people are anxious about the future.
No, just do your business normally. Nothing is going to happen because I have seen it all from 1986.
Are you forgetting how Mbabazi is entrenched in the system?
Where is he entrenched? He is nowhere.
In security circles, civil service, etc.
But I am a presidential advisor on security in central region, which is the hub and that is where I am. Can I put you in my vehicle and take you in Ndeeba and you talk about Mbabazi and then find out what happens?
Are you suggesting he is unpopular?
Mbabazi is popular in his own way, because there are people [within government] who are so aggrieved because they are poor; they are tired of this system.
Mbabazi is not poor but he is also tired of the system.
But where did he get those billions [from]?
Any final advice to Museveni on this Mbabazi issue?
They have started [politics] so early. This thing should have been talked about three months [to come] because people know what exactly they want and there is no new impression you can make on anybody here today.
What new thing are you coming up with? Just try to show people the way forward. Monitor and curb corruption because it's a problem and it's not only a government duty alone, but let us all work together.
walusimbideo@gmail.com
0 comments:
Post a Comment