{UAH} If you want tyranny, vote Mbabazi – Banyenzaki - Very True

If you want tyranny, vote Mbabazi – Banyenzaki

Written by Deo Walusimbi

 Last Updated: 07 August 2015

 

Henry Banyenzaki

HENRY BANYENZAKI, 48, is the state minister for economic monitoring in the office of the president, and MP for Rubanda West in Kabale district. Banyenzaki was often critical of government until he was appointed minister in May 2011.

In this interview with Deo Walusimbi on Wednesday, Banyenzaki spoke about the work methods and presidential bid of former Prime Minister Amama Mbabazi. Excerpts: 

Your former prime minister Amama Mbabazi has declared he will challenge President Museveni in next year's elections. What do you make of his decision?

His is a misinformed decision.

Why?

Because Mbabazi himself is not convinced by the decision he took. Mbabazi has been part of this NRM for more than three decades. He has been part of government. He can claim to be part of its achievements. I have no problem with that, and he has been part of the failures.

Whatever NRM failed to do, Mbabazi has the biggest portion to account for. So, if he is saying that the NRM has failed, it's him who has failed and actually he should say [that] he is the one who has failed the NRM.

Would you expound on your last allegation?

I have been within NRM for the last 15 years and I have been observing Mbabazi. Mbabazi's contribution to NRM has been scheming against his colleagues, scheming against his comrades and he always thought that he was the best amongst all of them and he was a very poor team builder.

And that is why, for example, he failed to build a team of leaders in Kigezi region. 

What about yourself?

For us who came from Kigezi as a young generation of leaders, we are self-made leaders because Mbabazi was not the kind of leader who we could look up to. May be Ndugu [Ruhakana] Rugunda [the Prime Minister] is a mentor.

The only leader he tried to mentor was his daughter Nina Mbabazi, but you can see the kind of leadership Nina has been offering. The other person he tried to mentor in his leadership was his wife [Jacqueline Mbabazi].

So, he is such a selfish man, the only leadership he tried to mentor was his homestead only; his daughter, his wife, his sister-in-law [Hope Mwesigye]. You see, it's a family affair. So, how can you trust such a person?

Mbabazi has been scheming against his colleagues?

He is the one who made Colonel [Anthony] Kyakabale, Colonel [Samson] Mande flee to exile and [caused] most of his comrades to go out of NRM because he was scheming against them.

That is why for example, there is no senior Munyakigezi who is behind his candidature. Mention one NRM senior Munyakigezi or one cadre or his comrade if you know any, not even [Col Kizza] Besigye who is in FDC.

But Besigye is backing Mbabazi in the alliance to effect change.

Besigye was in Kabale and said that Mbabazi is a 'liability' and told people of Kabale that Mbabazi should never be trusted, which means that there is no comrade at all who is with him. It's when he has fallen out with president Museveni that we see the Kyakabales back [from exile] and you see Mande is trying to come back.

But even Besigye knows that part of his being in exile [in South Africa before 2006 elections] was because of Mbabazi. If it was not for the benevolence of President Museveni, Mbabazi who was the minister for security then caused all the havoc, which happened [against] Besigye. Mbabazi was in charge.

So, if you want a real dictatorship or tyranny, you [Ugandans] vote Mbabazi in power, you will see a tyrant and a dictator who was orchestrating the sending away of his colleagues from the NRM.

He tried to send away all of us members of parliament [from Kigezi]. He tried me, he sent away the so called rebel MPs. Now after chasing them, he goes to hobnob with them. 

Do you subscribe to the notion that there are no permanent friends and enemies in politics?

Let me tell you, Mbabazi is a hunter being hunted now. He hunted everybody and he was hunting everybody out of malice.

So, would I be right to conclude that you are happy now that Mbabazi is out of NRM?

The best riddance I have ever seen in my lifetime is seeing Mbabazi facing this wrath.

What do you project therefore in the run up to 2016 with Mbabazi on the ballot paper?

Mbabazi means nothing. He will not even scratch NRM.

Mbabazi has already scratched NRM going  by the panicky way NRM has tried to contain him.

Tell me one member of NRM that Mbabazi has walked out with.

There are many, I can mention Hope Mwesigye, a senior leader, Jacqueline Mbabazi who commands the NRM women league.
 
Hope is his sister-in-law, Jacqueline is his wife; if you want, Nina is his daughter. He went with his daughter, his wife, and his sister-in-law, which means it's within his house and there is a conflict within their home because they don't believe in each other.

What do you mean?

His wife does not agree with him because she has been an extremist and he [Mbabazi] has always agreed with President Museveni and the wife has been on the other side. They don't agree within their house.

So?

I think his wife, sister-in-law are the ones who are pushing Mbabazi to contest against President Museveni.

Would you envision a situation where Mbabazi might abandon his presidential run?

There is a likelihood that Mbabazi can come back to NRM.

But he's declared he's going independent and he will end up being president

Mbabazi to be the president of Uganda?  He has no chance at all. He can only be a president of Uganda in his dreams.   

You hate Mbabazi so much; why?

I know him very well. I have been dealing with him for the last 15 years. I know how he behaves. Nobody will trust him in that Democratic Alliance.

But the TDA principals have embraced him?

He is there with [former VP Gilbert] Bukenya and you know the struggle he had with Mbabazi when he was still the vice president. When Bukenya visited Kigezi region, Mbabazi, together with Hope, came back with all sorts of lies against Bukenya and us. He said Bukenya was plotting a coup against Museveni.

So, he and Bukenya cannot see eye to eye. Mbabazi and Besigye, I have told you, it's Mbabazi who was tear gassing him and he is the one who forced Besigye into exile.

It's only President Museveni who became merciful and said let him [Besigye] come back and settle here [in Uganda]. If it was Mbabazi, he would have never allowed Besigye to come back here.

Do you agree that Mbabazi was powerful within the NRM?

He was a tyrant, not a powerful body. 

If a tyrant decides to go against Museveni who is not, wouldn't that worry you?

Museveni is a people person. So, if Mbabazi, a tyrant, stands against a people's person, it doesn't worry me because we are talking about people power and Mbabazi has tyranny power. Can tyranny overtake people power? We are now in a democracy.

But Museveni took up arms and fought a sitting government when the Mbabazi you call a tyrant was only doing it the civil way?

When the president went to the bush, it was a peoples' struggle, not a tyranny struggle. Mbabazi's struggle is a tyranny not a people's struggle. So, President Museveni led a people's revolution and as NRM, we don't feel any hitch, but good riddance.

How is the situation in NRM now that Mbabazi is out of NRM and cabinet?

That is the best thing that has happened for NRM because Mbabazi has always been chasing people away from NRM. Go and check, for example, in the founders' list of NRM. I was there, but Mbabazi deleted my name and Jacqueline Kyatuheire and others. 

The man who doesn't wish the young generation well because we were young and coming from Kigezi region. He forced Mande out of this country, he forced Kyakabale out of the government, but they are now coming back and he was forcing us out of the party, and succeeded in forcing the [Wilfred] Niwagabas out of the party and that is Mbabazi for you.

Minister Najjemba told me in a recent interview that Mbabazi began scheming to oust President Museveni 15 years ago, do you believe her?

Yes. He [Mbabazi] is a traitor. I have been in the presidency and I talked about this five years back and at the time when I was saying it, some people didn't believe it.

I said this man [Mbabazi] is up to something. I saw it and he was always denying, that he cannot plot against President Museveni. 'As long as he is the president, I will never stand against Museveni.' And he is on record…now what is he doing?

Did you bring Mbabazi's schemes to the attention of the president?

Yes, I did.

And what was his reaction?

That is not for discussion now.

Since June 15, when Mbabazi declared his intentions to stand for president, there's tension in NRM. Why?

Nothing has happened. In fact the political environment has stabilized because NRM is now much more stable and stronger because there is more cohesion because we now know that we have to follow and believe in one leader…which is very good for long-term development.

If it is true that Mbabazi built a power base within NRM, wouldn't that tear the party apart?

He didn't build a power base from within. He is like a man in the Bible who built a castle in the sand. So, he was just building a castle of power on sand and he thought it was a power base. Which power base? It was a deceitful base in his head.

Do you not fear that some of your colleagues will support Mbabazi?

They would have gone with him. It's a deceitful power base and some of our colleagues thought maybe that this man is genuine, yet he wasn't.

Of the two, Mbabazi and Besigye, who are you more afraid of as NRM?

We do not fear anybody except that Mbabazi is a hypocrite.

What do you read from his decision to run outside the NRM?

It shows his true colours now. He has been a chameleon within the NRM. He has now put on his true colours. He has been hiding that traitor-ship within NRM, but he has now put on a real gown of tyranny and everyone knows it.

He is standing as an independent and says he is in NRM, where? He is the one who presided over all these meetings which resolved that you cannot be an independent within NRM because he had independents within parliament…
You are a Christian, baptized, you change your religion to become a Muslim and you say I am still a Christian, how? You are either a Christian or a Muslim…

To take you back a little, you call Mbabazi a tyrant, but here is a man advocating a peaceful change of government!

He is now the most frustrated individual because he deceives himself that he has a following; where is that following?

The NRM poor youths are cheering him on.

Who [Adam] Ruzindana? He only has a few youths who are on his payroll, but how many are they?

Payroll! He is rumoured  to have bigger financial muscles than the  previous challengers. That should worry you!

Which muscle? I can also afford to have one, two, three people and pay them to talk for me. You even see the kind of leadership in his mindset, which he wants to offer. Poor youth…for us (NRM), we are talking about prosperity for all.

But it has been a song for the last 30 years…

It will continue. Civilization begun in Egypt thousands of years back. Egypt is still talking about civilization, prosperity never stops.

But the question remains, for how long will you preach prosperity for all?

As long as we live, we shall always create wealth because even God is still talking about wealth. He said that I have created you, go and conquer the world, multiply, now Mbabazi is preaching poorness saying that get poor and poorer...

Mbabazi is actually accusing NRM of deviating from the original principles of NRM.

Next to me here is a decorated general from Kigezi, Oweyesigire, ask him about Mbabazi in Kigezi region. Ask whether he is not a very malicious person.

General Jim Oweyesigire: Does [that journalist] doubt your statement?  
Banyenzaki: can you imagine? General come and make a rejoinder here.
Oweyesigire: I am coming.
Banyenzaki: That is the most decorated general from Kigezi Go and ask him, he will tell you what he thinks of Mbabazi. 

You are witch-hunting Mbabazi now!

No, that is the real person I am telling you, you cannot believe. How can Mbabazi lose at his polling station (in Kanungu) to a man called Rugazhu. It tells you that even people in his village don't trust him; who are you to trust him?

How did he make it to parliament if he lost an election?

He came to parliament because President Museveni has been babysitting him, he has been like a toddler being fed on baby milk and because of that, its President Museveni who has always been there campaigning for Mbabazi. Now that president Museveni is not there anymore, Mbabazi is finished. 

Do you agree that Museveni built his system whereby one gets so strong within and becomes too weak when he exits?

Museveni is a strong leader and people love Museveni so much and because of the Mbabazi hypocrisy, he had painted a picture that he is strong but he is not. He migrated from Rubanda to Kanungu, [but] no one in Rubanda can tell you that he is behind him.

But can't he make a good president for other regions of Uganda?

Just tell me one region where he has support. If he can't be popular at his village, where can he be? He had four rings of the army guarding his home and office, no wananchi is behind him. Now that the army, which guarded him, is no longer available, he is finished.

He matched himself with president Museveni where most of us disagreed with him (Mbabazi), but until recently, his true colours have started coming out and he has no plans for this country.

Are you oblivious of his eight-point programme?

Tell me what has he done for himself?

He is  well off; do you doubt that?

His family is run by his wife. That is why it is his wife who is running that (presidential) project.

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Gwokto La'Kitgum

"Even a small dog can piss on a tall Building", Jim Hightower

"But this I know, UPC believed and still believes in

very high education. We can call Obote all bad names we have, but the bottom line remains that he got more scholarships for Buganda than all previous Uganda leaders combined. That includes Sir Edward Mutesa, President Lule, President Binayisa, up to and into Ssabasajja Mutebi. Who all happen to be Baganda leaders." Mulindwa

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